Kayhan and the future of space traffic management

“And so, if you think about it, if you are a satellite operator and you're operating a spacecraft in your orbit, you'll have to contend with all these millions of pieces of debris object that are in your way and you need to maneuver around them. And not only that, there are different obviously, projections for how the industry is going to grow, but just in the next decade there are multiple estimates.

So, this is an exponentially growing problem, and knowing how critical this infrastructure is for us, we ought to have better systems, automated systems to be able to ensure that stuff doesn't crash into each other literally.”

‍

Chad Anderson:

Welcome to the Space Capital Podcast. I'm your host, Chad Anderson, founder and managing partner at Space Capital, a seed stage venture capital firm, investing in the space economy. We're actively investing out of our third fund with a hundred million under management. You can find us on social media at Space Capital.

In this podcast, we explore what's happening at the cutting edge of the entrepreneurial space age, and speak to the founders and innovators at the forefront.

This is the Space Capital Podcast, and today we're speaking with Siamak and Araz. They're the co-founders of Kayhan, a company that's on a mission to bring next generation automation to satellite operations and space flight safety.

I'm really excited for this one. I've been looking forward to it. We just recently led Kayhan's oversubscribed seed round, investing alongside a great syndicate of investors. And so guys, it's great to have you both on the show. Thanks for joining us.

Siamak Hesar:

Thank you so much for having us.

Araz Feyzi:

Thanks for having us.

Chad Anderson:

Okay, so to get things started, you guys have known each other for a long time, as I understand it, since you were kids, I think. So how did you decide to team up and can you give us the founding story of Kayhan?

Siamak Hesar:

Yeah, so Araz and I, we have known each other for over 20 years. So we were classmates at high school and then we went to college. We were roommates. We went to the same university and the same program. And we were roommates for four years and then we both immigrated to the United States. And since then we have been in touch with each other.

So the founding story of the company goes back to when I was working as a contractor for NASA, supporting some of their earth observing missions, EOS missions such as GPM mission, the LANsat mission, and the A-Train missions as SSA Specialists or Space Situational Awareness Specialists. And as I was doing that work, basically my job was to make sure that all those missions are safe. They happen to fly very close to ISS, all those earth observing satellites, especially GPM satellite. And my job was to coordinate with the Johnson Space Center, make sure that our spacecraft and obviously the ISS that houses the astronauts, they don't come uncomfortably close to each other.

So that meant that there was a lot of coordination between our team and the Johnson Space Center team. And I quickly realized how manual and inefficient the processes are when it comes to coordination between two different satellite operators. And even though we are both under the same umbrella of NASA, still, there was a lot of manual processes and inefficiencies. And that was the early days. This is a 2016 timeframe. There was not even a Starlink satellite up in space and we were hearing that OneWeb wants to put a few thousand satellites in orbit. And because Araz and I know each other so well and we always talk about work, I remember I would tell them that, "Hey, I'm doing this work for NASA, I know how inefficient the processes are, and here this company OneWeb wants to put few thousand satellites into space." So we started talking over two years or so and came to a conviction that, yeah, there's something here that we need to get in there and automate the processes.

Chad Anderson:

How times have changed. I mean, back then, 2016, the Planet Labs had just launched a few satellites, Spire the same thing. So this was really on the front end of these constellations of low cost small satellites being launched. And we were going from a few hundred to talking about a couple of thousand, and that was a huge growth curve and look at where we are now. So I want to get into all of that in a little bit, but so you have experience making sure that satellites stay safe. Araz, you have some experience in cloud, so it's a really sort of interesting compliment in a founding team from our perspective. You want to tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got excited about the opportunity here?

Araz Feyzi:

So, it goes back to middle school. When I got a Commodore 64, it kind of changed my life and computers became my thing from that moment on. After college, Siamak and I split paths. He pursued his passion, which was space, and I stuck with computers. And what I did throughout my career at a couple of different companies was just to automate processes from hospitality to banking, to cybersecurity.

And I remember it was a winter and Siamak and I were skiing in Colorado. We were just talking afterwards and he kept telling me that, "Look, I am writing code to automate these processes for NASA." And I think it was JPO mission back then as well. And the joke was that I was a good software engineer. He wasn't, and he's like, "Look, if I am writing this for first space industry, it should tell you something, right?

Siamak Hesar:

That's true.

Araz Feyzi:

Yeah. We kept talking about it and talked to operators, talked to analysts. A couple of things that became clear to me and convinced me or gave me the conviction to get started with Siamak was that I realized space industry is going through a transformation. It's going from old space to new space where you had to have billions of dollars, tens of PhDs and hundreds of staff to design, build, launch an mission and operate it to where you can be a small agile company with a couple million in funding and actually launch a mission.

But the infrastructure was not there yet to support all of that. The agility of this transition, which means there was not just enough software. Software as a service still continues to be kind of a niche thing in space industry, which is changing very quickly. So we realized that in order for us to be able to move fast in new space world, we need better software. We need more quality software for space industry. So here we are. And I think over the past four years we've been able to demonstrate that our hunch was correct, we were on the right track. So that's my side of the story.

Chad Anderson:

Great, thanks. And I can't wait to get into your products and what it is that you guys are building. But something that I think is important to point out right from the start, particularly for any new listeners to this podcast who might be here to learn about the space economy and what all this excitement is about, one thing that I think is essential to understand is that the world economy runs on space technology. Space-based assets are essential for our economic stability and our national security, and governments around the world are prioritizing their protection, right? This was the topic of conversation at the last G7, the White House's, this is one of the top three priorities of the White House with regards to space. His Majesty, King Charles unveiled an Astra Carta framework focused on sustainability efforts, and there's a lot of effort to deem space formally as critical infrastructure.

And one of my favorite quotes comes from Scott Pace, the former Executive Secretary of the National Space Council. He said that we are dependent upon space both militarily and economically as much as if not more than Great Britain was dependent on the ocean in the 17th to the 19th centuries. So when you guys say that you're on a mission to make space flight safer, this is the critical infrastructure that you're talking about protecting, right?

Siamak Hesar:

Absolutely. No, you are just hitting the nail on the head. I mean, for a lot of people, space used to be and still is an abstract thing that is out there and it's just a job of scientists to deal with spacecraft in space. But exactly as you said, people don't realize that their everyday life from communication, air travel, even food production, agriculture, depends on space. There was a report that was out that was estimating what will happen to the US economy if the GPS service that we all use on everyday life, if it goes out just for one day. And the estimate of the economic hit, especially in the food production and basically the supply chain of the food that we depend on on a daily basis, that would be disrupted significantly and the damage will be in billions of dollars just in one single day.

So yes, we literally depend on the space, and space is a infrastructure industry for us, and we need to ensure that it is protected and it continues to serve us.

Chad Anderson:

Yeah, I mean, the punchline of all of these thought exercises is that if we were to lose access to the GPS signal or GNSS signals that the world economy would come to a grinding halt. So we've got to protect these things.

The challenge is that the number of objects in low earth orbit particularly is growing rapidly. I mean, for the first 60 years of the space age, we've been operating in space for decades, but it's only recently become a category for entrepreneurship and investment. And we've seen thousands of new entrants coming in with lots of plans to launch hundreds and thousands, tens and hundreds of thousands of satellites is what all of this sort of results in in the end.

So what can you tell us? I mean, this is a growing problem and like you mentioned, we don't have scalable software systems in place to manage all of this growth. So can you help listeners get their heads around the size of the problem that we're talking about here?

Siamak Hesar:

Yeah, so just to give your listeners a sense of numbers, like the sense of the size of how rapidly this whole thing is growing. Since the dawn of a space age, so since Soviet Union back then launched Sputnik to space, that was the first satellite, we have, we meaning humanity as a whole, we have launched around 11,000 satellites into space. And a majority of that has actually been Starlink satellites recently. And that has contributed to an estimated 1 million pieces of debris objects greater than one centimeter in diameter in orbit around the earth. These are artificially generated debris objects. These are derelict satellites or piece of bolt or piece of solar arrays or springs. So all these stuff that comes out of satellites or launch vehicles when we launch spacecraft, a byproduct of that.

And so if you think about it, if you are a satellite operator and you're operating a spacecraft in your orbit, you have to contend with all these millions of pieces of debris object that are in your way and you need to maneuver around them. And not only that, there are different obviously, projections for how the industry is going to grow. But just in the next decade there are multiple estimates, but in general, people think that there's going to be tenfold more increase in the number of satellites that are going to be launched. So we are looking at a hundred thousand satellites being launched just in the next decade.

So this is an exponentially growing problem, and knowing how critical this infrastructure is for us, we ought to have better systems, automated systems to be able to ensure that stuff doesn't crash into each other, literally.

Araz Feyzi:

One quick analogy I like to use, especially with non-space folks, is that imagine you have a newly paved highway: no signs, no lines, some trash on the road, and then you have occasional cars that drive in each direction once in a while. So they can steer out of the way of the trash and be safe, but take that road and put thousands of cars on it, drive really fast at both direction. Again, there's no rules, no regulations, and you can quickly realize that this is becoming a problem where, first of all, we need to agree on certain rules of the road, how we're going to coordinate with each other, how we're going to fly around each other, and also come up with ways that we can automatically de-conflict amongst each other. So it's a really rapid shift from where we were to where we are now, and we're going. Siamak has talked about some of the numbers. It's just an old reminder to change in complexity of operating in space these days.

Chad Anderson:

And that's a really great visual to help make it real in people's minds. It reminded me, Araz, of the presentation you gave a TechCrunch Disrupt a couple of years ago. You gave a great demo that walked through life before Kayhan and with Kayhan that really talks about the system built for the road with one or two cars on it and how the rudimentary crude, very manual processes worked for that scenario. And then you move into a world in which there's a lot more activity and how that legacy system just doesn't work anymore. Could you talk us through your product, Pathfinder and one of those real world scenarios?

Araz Feyzi:

Yeah, for sure. Up until now, satellite operators, they have been relying on these notifications that come from US Space Command. US Space Command operates the Space Waste Network that tracks debris and then operational satellites. So they would get these notifications, tens of them, sometimes hundreds of them a day saying, "Hey, there's a close approach between your asset and this other thing." So they have to sit through them, read them one by one, make sure that they don't miss that needle in the haystack, the one high interest event, the higher risk event that they have to care about.

And then once they identified a case where they had to take an action, then the real work began. So pull data from different data sources in different formats, legacy systems, put them into tool sets and come up with solutions, well not necessarily optimal solutions, they were solution that would solve the problem and work with teams across different operational segments and come up with an action plan and then develop the maneuver, perform the maneuver and stay safe.

This could take hours. As you can see, there are tens of things that could go wrong. One could miss one of those high risk events, which has happened in the past. And this is just dealing with one-sided problem. "Hey, I have a spacecraft, it has a high risk conjunction with something else. I need to get out of the way."

Now, if you take that old way of doing things and expand it to cases where you have two operational satellites, having conjunction potentially from two different nations in two different time zones, and this is a real problem today, and a lot of operators literally have to pick up the phone and call each other or find each other's emails and email each other and try to coordinate. "Okay, so what are we going to do today?"

Now, with Pathfinder, the product that we've developed, and it's the first autonomous space traffic coordination platform, you can do all of this automatically. We ingest data from different data sources, including US-based command notifications. We basically filter out all the noise. We only notify satellite operators when they need to know, and we provide them the high level information about the upcoming risky events. And then we also autonomously generate optimal courses of action maneuver plans that operators can pick from and get out of the way.

But another thing we do is that we simulate these recommendations, these maneuvers to make sure that after performing this maneuver, spacecraft still is safe. It's not going to be in a conjunction with another object. And also with the new release that we just announced a few weeks ago, Pathfinder 2.0, we also automatically coordinate between operators. So for example, two operators can go in and set up a rule amongst themselves, then say, "Hey, if my satellite number five is in conjunction with your satellite number one, I will perform maneuver because I know you're running low on fuel," for example. Or an operator can go in and say, "I'm adopting the Space Safety Coalition recommendations and Kayhan Pathfinder natively adopt can apply that.

So Space Safety Coalition is a group of operators that have come together and have released some recommended rules of the road and rules of engagement that we are also endorsing it. So yeah, we basically make it super easy. So if you set up properly and if you bought into this system, you can technically put everything on automation and you won't even have to manually get involved with these de-confliction and avoidance maneuvers anymore.

Chad Anderson:

That's great. Siamak, any other fun real world examples to share?

Siamak Hesar:

I think Araz covered it really well, but yes, I mean, I lived through that process myself. As I said, when I was supporting these missions, we would get conjunctions that are, I don't know, day out or 18 hours out. I do remember one actually, we just had Thanksgiving holidays. One Thanksgiving, there was a high conjunction event or high probability collision event with Landsat, seven, I believe, if my memory serves right. And literally we worked through the Thanksgiving Day to ensure that that spacecraft is safe. So I'm talking about 10 people from setups to mission manager to people, astrodynamicists that are helping them to ensure that the spacecraft is safe. We put in safe mode design maneuver, get mission managers consent on, "Okay, we are going to perform this maneuver." So yeah, those were the old days and we are determined to change that.

Chad Anderson:

That's a huge endorsement for what you're building. I mean, a dozen people lost out on Thanksgiving when with Kayhan they could have just pushed a button and resolved in 60 seconds.

Siamak Hesar:

Absolutely.

Araz Feyzi:

Well, maybe not even push the button, put an automation.

Chad Anderson:

There you go. Yeah, there you go. Okay. So huge problem. You guys have developed a very elegant solution. Who is your target customer? Are you focused on trying to sell to commercial companies like Starlink and others? I know that you're working with Space Force and Air Force and the DOD because there's clear interest there, but for you, who's the ideal customer?

Araz Feyzi:

Anybody with an operational asset in orbit I would say is the right customer for us. It doesn't matter if you are still designing your first mission, it's always good to start early, set up early, simulate early, and plan early, even before your launch so you're prepared. And even if you have a constellation of hundreds and even thousands of satellites, the need to coordinate with everybody else is a problem that we're solving for those folks.

So I guess if we look at the market, there are certain operators who need a wider variety of our capabilities. For example, I think simulating maneuvers or checking for safety of those maneuvers, or generating maneuvers, period, almost for coordination. But there are certain operators that have developed very comprehensive solution in-house for some of those areas. But the need to coordinate with everybody else who flies around you continues to be a problem for almost any operator because now we're talking about hundreds of operators, independent operators from tens of nations around the world who are flying very close proximity to each other in very packed orbits.

So yeah, the short answer is that, yeah, if you're planning on launching a mission, starting from that, all the way to operators who have thousands of satellites, we are excited to work with all of them.

Chad Anderson:

And you were a part of this recent transporter SpaceX launch with hundreds of satellites. How many satellites? Ninety-one satellites, something like that. There was a lot of satellites on board this SpaceX transporter mission and you helped out with that. What can you tell us about?

Araz Feyzi:

There's a problem with, when you're launching, let's say you launch a mission and you launch a launch vehicle and there's one or two assets on that flight that are getting deployed. Ground radars and trackers and telescopes. Once the payload is deployed, they start looking for it to find it, track it, catalog it to be able to add it to the space catalog.

Now, if you have a few of them, it's relatively easy because you have a predicted ephemera for it, you know approximately where it's going to be. So it's relatively easy to find and it takes relatively short period of time for these objects to get cataloged.

Now, it's a different story when you launch tens of satellites in very close proximity to each other. So in the past what has happened that sometimes it's taken weeks for all of these assets to be identified, tracked and cataloged. We've had cases where satellites have just been lost. I can think of at least two or three assets that were never found just because there were just big cluster of them and it was just very hard to identify those. And once it's lost, it's lost. It's almost impossible to find those assets.

Now, the problem is that, so from the moment that the satellite is deployed to the moment that it's tracked, that window is called COLA Gap because during that window you can't really do conjunction assessment and identify potential collisions because you just can't track those objects.

Now, a lot of times these satellites get deployed into very busy orbits, and as you can imagine, this can be very risky. So imagine flying blindly for weeks at a time can be very, very risky and you could create really bad conjunction or collisions.

Now, what we did during Transporter 9 was that we worked with some of those operators who were on board the Falcon 9 to receive their telemetry data as soon as they establish a connection, which means GPS data. So we took those and we very rapidly solved for the orbit. So we do orbit determination, we propagated that forward, and we share that with the customer and/or directly with US Space Command. So what happens is that when you do that, then the folks on the ground who are trying to identify these objects, they actually do have a trajectory that they can use to look for those objects and track them.

I think that we're not done compiling our postmortem analysis, but initial information that we have received points out that this time around they were able to basically catalog these assets a lot faster than before.

Chad Anderson:

That's great. I guess how does it work from a business model perspective, and if a satellite operator wants to work with you and better coordinate with other satellites, how does it work? Do they subscribe? Is it a monthly subscription, is it per satellite or how does it work?

Araz Feyzi:

So we've tried to make it super easy for operators to work with us. So if you are a satellite operator that doesn't have a maneuverability capability, so you just can't perform maneuver, we have started offering a tier of our solution called Essentials, and that's actually free of charge and it's very easy to get onboarded. You can go to our website, fill out a form, and we immediately reach out to you and we can set you up within hours to start using Pathfinder Essentials.

For more sophisticated customers and for customers who do need maneuver recommendations and they want to be able to fully coordinate with everybody else, we have a tier called Pro. That tier subscription model based on the size of your constellation and your needs and also the orbital regime that you're in, we provide a quote, again, based on those factors and the subscription model, so these operators can join our network and give recommendations and forward with everybody else.

Chad Anderson:

Great. Okay. So I want to talk a little bit about the opportunity here and how big you think it is. So of all the emerging industries in the space economy, logistics and space traffic management has attracted, it's one of the top areas in which investment has been going. So while the importance of space traffic management's now widely recognized, we've hit on that a couple of times throughout this conversation already, the sector's still in its nascent stages for sure. We're still on the front end of this growth curve. So how are you guys thinking about market size now and in the future?

Araz Feyzi:

Yeah, that's a great question. So we talked about some numbers early on the call. So far we have launched a little over 10,000 satellites Earth's orbit. Total in the next decade alone, expectations that we'll launch 10 times that.

So traditionally speaking, if you look at the satellite operation costs, depending on obviously the type of the mission and the constellation size and all that, it costs tens of thousands of dollars to hundreds of thousands of dollars a month to operate a single satellite. That's across software, the human resources and all of that. And as we are going through this transformation, going from old space to new space, more satellites will be launched and be operated.

So that number, all of a sudden you realize that something has to change. And what we think is changing is software playing a bigger role in helping satellite operators run their day-to-day missions. Instead of an old space, you threw PhDs at problems. "Hey, I need to design an orbit for my mission." Okay, let's hire five astroanalysts with PhDs to come and sit down and spend months and months and design this. Today, that's not just going to work. There's just not enough people to go around.

So our vision is that a lot of these functions that were being done manually on a case by case basis, they're going to be replaced by software, by automation, by automatic processes. And if you just do a back envelope math, take 50, 60, 70,000 operational satellites, multiply down by tens of thousands of dollars a month in operational expenses, all of a sudden you can see that it is an extremely large market just for the flight operation side of things. And I'm not even getting into launch or other aspects of space missions, just from operational perspective. It's a $7 billion a year opportunity.

Chad Anderson:

So, on your team, you have a really strong roster of astrodynamicists, PhDs and engineers, but the difference here is that there's not enough to go around. You've hired a great roster of them, they're working on this problem, and they have a scalable software solution that you can then just purchase access to and subscribe to rather than every company building this thing in-house.

Siamak Hesar:

Yeah, that is correct. Right now the company size is 21. Actually, we just hired another great software engineer. So within the team of 21, we have five PhDs in astrodynamics, one PhD in data sciences and machine learning. So yeah, we have built a very capable team and a lot of these folks have experienced operating satellites in the past, like myself and others operated NASA JPL or even national security assets in the past. So we basically live and agree with the problem ourselves and we know what the problems are for the operators and we know how to solve them.

Chad Anderson:

Yeah, I think your team is part of your competitive advantage, for sure. And that's what I'd like to talk about a little bit is how you view the competitive landscape. I mean, most companies that are operating in your space may appear to be competitors when actually they're complimentary, right? When they're actually data providers and they're on the Space Situational Awareness side of the house. But trying to get your arms around the competitive landscape, we're tracking 21 companies, their combined value reaches into the hundreds of billions of dollars. And that's largely because several of them are established defense giants, but you also have small and medium-sized businesses that are doing kind of interesting things too. So it's a really interesting market in which you are operating in and competing in with a large variety of actors. So I'm curious how you think about things and how you think about your competitive position and advantage amongst all these other folks.

Araz Feyzi:

So, there are different verticals, as you mentioned in this market. For example, when it comes to maneuver recommendations and collision avoidance, for example, just as niche area, our main competitor so far has been and continues to be in-house development for a lot of operators. But as you can imagine, trends are changing. We have more and more operators realizing that they have more important things to worry about than just to solve problems. Not only it is better, but it's faster and cheaper to outsource it to someone like Kayhan Space and focus on what matters most, which is the core mission of the company.

In that world, I think besides just in-house development, there are a few companies that have discussed doing something similar, but as far as we know, we're the only company that have moved satellites in orbit. When it comes to space traffic coordination and space traffic management, obviously it's a very new area for everyone. We have a couple of operators, a couple of companies that have discussed potential solutions. But as far as, again, I know Pathfinder 2.0 is the only operational space traffic coordination solution that exists out there.

We continue to monitor market, as you said, it's very complex. Generally these relationships are very complex. They're pretty complex just because space is complex.

Chad Anderson:

Okay, so you had a lot of interest in your recent fundraising round. It was very oversubscribed, which is, in this market, is saying quite a lot. So I'm curious, how did you think about choosing the investors that you wanted to work with and thinking about the partners that you got involved in this round to help you now and going forward?

Siamak Hesar:

Great question. Yeah, I mean, obviously it was a very tough market when we were raising this year, but also we have also been very picky in terms of whom we reach out to in terms of we want to talk with. For a small company, and this also relates to your previous question in terms of competitive advantage. We are a very agile company and we have a vision that we want to implement. And it is very important, utmost important to us that the investors that come on board and support us are also sharing that vision with us. And that is basically our litmus test in terms of when we get on a call with investors and essentially pitch our business and the market size and stuff, the questions that we get tells a lot about what the investor's thinking and where their minds is and is it aligned with our vision.

And that is how basically we went after this fundraising as well, that obviously we are very happy that we are able to work with Space Capital that is leading our round. And also if you look at the syndicate of the investors that we put together, EVE Atlas that is led by Thiago Olson, he actually has an asteroid named after him. So very much invested in this industry and physicist by training.

So it was a very easy conversation for us when we started talking with Thiago that really saw the value of what we are bringing to the table. As well as obviously yourself and Space Capital. The fact that we understand that Space Capital has invested in so many different space companies in different areas, in different segments of the value chain. And that knowledge that has created by those investment portfolios is very valuable to us because we understand and we know that you are sharing the same vision as us, that this is where Kayhan fits, and this is how we can collaborate with other companies, and this is how we see the market growing. So yeah, that's how we went about this fundraising.

Chad Anderson:

Thanks guys. Appreciate the kind words. So with regards to where you're at and where you're going, what's next for Kayhan? You've just released Pathfinder 3.0, very exciting stuff. Where do you go from here?

Araz Feyzi:

So, as we talked about it earlier, this is a network effect. So it's a two-sided network where you have operators of different sizes are collaborating with each other or coordinating actually through this platform. So the next thing for us is to go out there and make sure that every satellite operator that we can get our hands on joins the platform. And it's been going really well. Our plan is to execute on that mission over the next couple of months and bring onboard as many operators as we can. So that's on the commercial side. And a commercial side for Pathfinder, I'd say.

We also released a product last year or earlier this year called Gamut, which is a launch conjunction assessment. So today the only organization that runs these launch conjunction assessments is US based command. So basically before you launch a mission, you have to make sure that your first stage, second stage, all the payloads that you deploy, all the components that come out the launch vehicle are not going to hit something else in the space.

Gamut is a product that we've developed, it's a cloud-based product commercial solution that can run these conjunction assessment tasks very, very rapidly. We've already brought it to market and sold it to a couple of customers. That's going to be another mission for us to push that into the market globally.

And from a government perspective, obviously as you mentioned earlier, we have a very good working relationship with several government agencies. So we're really excited to expand our relationship with various government agencies from Department of Commerce to NASA to Space Force and other agencies.

With Pathfinder 3.0, we've developed a product that we're really proud of. We think this addresses the problem of today and tomorrow. So we have planned several improvements to that product, but we believe that now there's a real product out there that can solve this problem and it's our job, that's our mission to put in front of every satellite operator out there.

Chad Anderson:

And the more satellites you get on board and the more operators you get on board with Pathfinder, the more valuable it becomes, and the greater the network effect is, and the safer all these satellites can operate. So if there's a satellite operator out there that's listening that's interested in leveraging your next generation automation capabilities and getting on board with Pathfinder, how can they get in touch with you?

Araz Feyzi:

Yeah, we've made it super simple. Kayhan.space. There's a button on there that you can request to sign up to Pathfinder, and then we encourage everybody, every satellite operator to visit our website, Kayhan.space. K-A-Y-H-A-N.space, and reach out to us. We will immediately contact them and then we'll make sure that they get onboarded on Pathfinder within hours.

Chad Anderson:

Sounds great. Okay, we're just about out of time guys. Is there anything else you wanted to cover?

Siamak Hesar:

No, thank you for the opportunity. I mean, the last thing I wanted to say is that for your listeners, going back to what we talked at the onset is that space is becoming more and more important for our everyday lives. And I encourage all of your listeners to go and read articles, Google, get your hands on books about how this industry is growing and how we are always looking for great talent in terms of helping us to grow our automation capabilities that we are providing to the industry.

Chad Anderson:

Yeah, that's great.

Araz Feyzi:

And also, I'd like to mention that I was going to say that we are growing, if you are interested to work for a company that's making a real difference in the space industry, just reach out to us. We'd love to talk to you.

Chad Anderson:

Yeah, that's great. This is exciting stuff guys, and really important what you're doing. We're really happy to be involved. So thanks again, appreciate you coming on the show. It's been great talking to you.

Siamak Hesar:

Thank you very much. Appreciate the time.

Araz Feyzi:

Thank you.

‍

Thanks for tuning into the Space Capital Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please leave us a review and subscribe to make sure you never miss an episode. And if you're interested in learning more about investing in the space economy, I invite you to visit our website spacecapital.com where you can get access to more industry leading insights and learn how you can join the entrepreneurial space age.